Homeland K-9 Dog Training Academy

I say no...there are circumstances where it's not the best training tool to use to build obedience.

Some examples:

If you enjoy giving physical corrections and yelling no.

If you want to take your time training your dog and don't want him obedient too fast.

If you get a kick out of going outside with your dog to "break" because otherwise he'll run off. (super-fun during winter)

If you love to repeatedly get up off the couch to correct your dog.

If it "turns you on" to repeatedly kick your dogs crate or spray him in the face to teach him "quite".

If you enjoy kneeing your dog in the chest so he won't jump on you.

If you have a blast screaming your dogs name over and over to get his attention when there's a distraction around.

And I'm sure there are many more "good" reasons a remote collar is not the best training tool for everyone.

Very Sincerely,

Kurt

alright kurt, congrats on your first post.  hopefully many more to come.  i think we will always deal with the DOUBTERS.  some think it is cruel and unusual punishment.  the LAST thing i would ever want to do is physically hurt a dog, or to reduce the dog's confidence.

this is a fairly new concept to many.  if some would realize that you are doing your dog no favors by letting them do whatever they want.

being a house dog is a very hard job.  i think it is a harder job than even a sport dog.  there are a million rules that mant times the dog must learn on there own.  the e-collar is simply a tool to help your dog learn. 

remember a strong foundation is  the most important thing you can give your dog.   remember your BASICS.

I'm am going to throw my two cents worth out here.  My dad has trained hunting dogs for the past 40 yrs.  He has field trialed some of his dogs.  He uses a remote collar to this day.  He also says that he has seen more really good dogs (potential field trial champions). ruined by the misuse of  remote collars than anything else.  As an example, we all go through a lot of training to learn how do drive.  Should everyone who has a license be on the road?      

let me be clear, i will not judge anyone for not being a fan of the e-collar.  it can be used wrong for sure.  however, ever heard the term "compulsive obedience"  talk about a drive killer.  that is where guidance and a trainer you can trust come in.  the worst thing you could do is just throw on the reciever and start frying a dog.   this needs to be done in the most proper manner.  a pinch collar can also cause your dog to take many steps backward.

Training collars are not for everybody.  What may not be justifiable is their current widespread use by dog owners with little behavioral background or experience.  There is a considerable risk for abuse when E-collars are placed into naive and inexperienced hands.  Also if you are too lazy to get up off the couch to correct your dog...then get a cat! 

Let me first say I'm talking about responsible dog owners who want the best for their dogs but want soild obedeince too. There is no better tool.

As far as drive goes I agree it super important to build and protect a dogs drive. I know from experience, my first dog an american bulldog was not very conifident and super soft with corrections. I believe to this day I made it worse using a regular training collar. My corrections were too much, even the raising of my voice or her feeling my disapproval made her more unsure.

Now today with remote collars I can turn it down to barely a touch to gain attention and never raise my voice or my hand for a manual correction. And still turn it to the proper level if distractions are high. I can even teach new behaviors with it. And the list goes on...

I guess I misunderstood the topic.  I thought it was "Is a remote collar for everyone?"  Which I have to say no it is not.  I agree that any tool can be used improperly, so with that in mind I say those tools aren't for everyone.  Hey, Kurt when are you getting a picture on here.  I hate responding to a blank head.     

I might not sound like it, but I am glad to have you posting.  You will probably get some really good debates going

Everyone = responsible dog owners who want the best for their dogs but want soild obedeince too.

Of course remote collars can be misused and training collars and pinch collars and food (ever see a fat dog) and praise ( ever watch somebody reinforce a bad behavior)

So yes people must learn to use them correctly and the same is true of any training method.

Now with that out of the way...who can build relieable obedience faster, safer, and easier without a remote collar?

And I don't need to get off the couch or get a cat...I have a remote collar.:D

Sorry about the picture thing I'll get one up soon...of my dog proudly wearing a remote collar.

unfortunately, 80% of dog owners do NOTHING with their dog.

they want a pretty lawn ornament, have a pre teen child they want to give some responsibility to (feeding and walking) or impulse buy at the pet store or shelter.

then, the dog becomes more than they bargained for, the solution is to build a fence, get the dog a playmate, or the dog is remomed.

because the dog has not been educated, it gets put up when company comes over.  the owners don't understand how to PLAY with their dog, all they know how to do is yell.  commands are given like a punishment.  to e-collar or not to e-collar is a long time debate. 

in the world there are many wonderful tools, that in the wrong or untrained hands would be horrible.  fire can be a killer, but is also a life saver in these cold months.

90% of dog enthusiests IMO don't have the patience, time or desire to get their dog to an elite level.  i would venture to say the majority of the dogs in springboro don't leave the house because the owner has no control.

i think rather than the topic being "is the remote collar for everyone"  maybe a better title would be "can an e-collar be used positively and responsibly."

The remote collar is not for everyone. I myself have never used a remote collar and never plan on it.

I agree with them but its not for me.  I also think that if you cant not correct your dog the proper way than you should not have a remote.  It kills me to see these people with remotes that over do it. "Joe you know who Im talking about" The remote is about having control of your dog in a off leash / distance situation.

My dogs works for a few reasons.

1. It was breed to do so

2. It's his job and his paycheck is the reward. (ball,  tug, and to bite someone) lol

3. It the bond me and him has created.

 A remote does not build faster ob or eaiser ob, the reward system is what puts it into place. Everytime the dog is in correct position he gets the reward. He then learns "hey if I do this right the first time I get my toy" Joe's dog Moses is a perfect example, he will do anything and everything for Joe to throw that ball.  Moses as learned over a year that the ball/tug means everything. They have built a very strong working bond with each other.

First the remote collar, used properly is not for corrections only. If you used it this way you lose most of it's magic.

Secondly, rewards are super important...but what happens when the distraction is more attractive than the reward.

Third, proper training with a remote collar is way faster, easier, smarter, safer, period. I have used a remote collar and have trained dogs without...not even close.

I was slow excepting cell phones...just didn't believe "everyone would have one". I was even slower to except that we needed a computer.

Both have made my life better.

I have not been slow to except the remote collar and it has made life with my dogs much better.

I personally watch Mike change "out of control dogs" into trained family pets in less than 5 days... every week. From aggressive Rotts to tiny shitzu's w/ his primary tool being a remote collar and good techinque.

Hey, I guess the Amish don't drive cars.

you guys and gals are all making excellent points.  thanx tom for the compliments. 

i myself was guilty with smokey of using it only as a correction.  my eyes were opened after a seminar in padukah ky by some EXCELLENT folks that specialize in e-collar.  fist and foremost, it is not a correction.

the art of attention is paramount.  in a dogs early stages of education the level of distraction needs to be controlled, in the real world, this is not ALWAYS possible.  i remember going to mikes puppy class with my mother and a dog that very strongly wanted to prove how tough he was.  this was one of the first times he was in a training environment.  i was embarresed and felt very conspicous.  at that time, there was no way i could get his attention with a rewtard.  over time i introduced the e-collar to teach a recall.  very slow and methodical.  only enough stim for him to get his attention.  very careful not to destroy drive. 

tuesday, mike had the class remove all collars.  here is where your foundation comes thru.  all the dogs did fine.  they were educated over time and with practice.

even though the amish don't own or drive cars, they are not shy about asking for a ride.:)

Are we talking about working dogs or family pets now?

Mike is a very good trainer and he does a great job at what he does. I myself have trained  your "out of control" dogs into house pets.

 The remote does not make faster, flashy, eaiser ob, or safer ob period.. It can help at times with distraction and cleaning up ob but it all goes back to having control of your dog. When you step out to do PSA or Sch there is no way your going to do it with a remote.......

I have no problem stopping my dog in a full out prey run chasing a rabbitt. They can go straight from biting the bad guy to playing with the bad guy.  *No remote needed* It all goes back to control work from day one.

I do know if you put 50 dog trainers in a room you will get 50 diff. ways to train a dog. lol

So its all about what works best with the trainer and the dogs.

I will do all of my training without the remote.

never say never. 

some were against playing tug.  some are against table work.  some are unable to play fetch off leash as the dog turns it into a game of CHASE ME.

i feel there is a definite application

My father can call his dogs off in a full prey chase, heel with loose lead, (several at a time) etc.  and has never used an e-collar to do it.  I think its his bond with his dogs and knowing what makes his dogs listen.  He does spend alot of time w/them and he starts with day one.  He's not caught up in the training tools.  He uses his voice as an excellent enforcer.  No, not screeming, but just manipulating his voice.  Just recently he did purchase an e-collar, I think because his young buddies use them.  After just afew days, he said " I told my dog to come & he turned on a dime"

Will my father continue to use the "E"?  I don't know, he tried it & liked it but he is 80+ yr and enjoys spending alot of time training in his own way which works for him. 

(It all goes back to control work from day one -----thx VanHunterhaus)

I don't have my fathers talent, so I use whatever works for me and my dog.  Some days its a flat buckle, somedays its an e-collar.  We all know it's how you use them and any will work - its just how much patience and time do you have.

Dog to heavy from treat training??? Owner doesn't know how to correctly treat train!

think how many times we have all heard this.

dog is acquired as a pup.

dog is loved and babied, gets to do whatever it wants.

dog becomes an energetic adolescent and is too much.

mike is contacted.

the owners have not instilled rules.

they feel like they love there dog less if it has to follow rules.

classes are started and the dog says whoah, you are changing the   rules.

the owner has had enough, stress in the family, discusions of getting rid of the dog.

van hunter, you make excellent points, but you and i have seen the multitude of good dogs at the shelter.  dogs that unfairly were alowed to do whatever they wanted, no fault of there own.

springboro does not have the mindset of treating a dog like a dog.

i am generalizing here.

if everyone realized these mistakes not only would we have less e-collars,

the shelter biz would be cut down to a third.